Episode 3: Building and Owning an Audience Part 2

In part two of the discussion of building and owning an audience, Robbie and Tim dive into the intricacies of creating relationships through content and adding value beyond the product.

Robbie Fitzwater
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Quote of the Episode

“You probably will never be able to out-scale Amazon; this is a place where you can out-human them.”

Robbie Fitzwater



Robbie 0:11
Hello, this is Robbie Fitzwater and Tim Lowry. With the Content Community Commerce Podcast. We unpack and discuss ideas at the intersection of content, community, and commerce. So ecommerce entrepreneurs and marketers can leverage those on their own and have some fun and make marketing a little bit more accessible.

Robbie 0:28
Welcome back, everyone. This is part two of building and owning an audience. We’re talking about a lot of different subjects, but basically coming back to hey, what’s the point of building an audience? And once I do that, how do I keep them engaged?

Tim 0:44
Yeah, so we’ve we built it. So hopefully, everyone that’s listening, since we last spoke, your audience is now now built maybe a little, little too fast, but it doesn’t happen quite quick. But now that we’ve built it, what do we do Robbie? Like, where’s that next? How do we move from, from those people that are just coming into your site, whether that’s coming through organic landing in through social your site. Coming in through pay.

Tim 1:07
We talked about that rented audience, and you only want to rent for so long, eventually, you wanna put on your big boy pants and start to own a house. So it’s like, we’ve got our organic, we’re starting to build and own our house, but you still don’t really own the audience. Like they, they can go somewhere else. So what do we do now?

Robbie 1:26
Yeah, so this is this is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart after spending years of understanding, hey, we’re building an audience, how are we leveraging it? And then once we’re doing that, how are we keeping it and maintaining it and like, again, starting in the space of social, knowing that that’s always really volatile, and there’s always some, there’s not as much consistency there.

Robbie 1:48
And I was trying to go back to hey, the problem you’re solving for the marketer. And for me the problem my like, Northstars, I’m always trying to understand, hey, again, attention is difficult to earn, and even harder to maintain. And if I can understand, hey, this is going to change, this is not going to be platform. These are the this is the strategies is not necessarily platform agnostic, or platform dependent.

Robbie 2:12
This is more platform agnostic. But once I’ve earned that attention, how do I keep it? And how do I keep people coming back? And how do I become part of their lives, because the brands that kind of help people do be the best version of themselves, and the ones that really helps them tell the story they get, help them better tell the story they tell about themselves are the ones that win and the ones that people are going to come back to.

Robbie 2:34
And I was looking at it from a profitability standpoint to like, if I’m spending time and attention, again getting somebody in the door, I want them to keep coming back in the door, I want your your repeat customers are your most profitable customers. So if I get somebody to purchase the second, third, fourth, fifth time, that’s the most valuable for me, because hey, I’m not paying an acquisition cost on that. And when they’re purchasing those times, if I’ve educated inform them to that process, their average order value is probably increased. Yeah, one of those times.

Tim 3:03
And your customer lifetime value has now where you now have a lifetime on a customer versus other ways it might be a one and done like this is this is creating a lifetime value to that customer.

Robbie 3:15
Yeah, I’m not a vending machine, I’m certainly a trusted resource that there, I’m a trusted partner in helping them get the resource they’re looking for. And that’s where this content piece really plays a large role because keeping them coming back. And once they’re, again, we’ve gotten them through the door, or we got them into our door, they’ve maybe at the were we talked about, like reach the or race framework, but like we’ve gotten them through, we’ve reached them, we’ve engaged them.

Robbie 3:41
Now we want to either convert them or we want if they’re already converted, we want to engage them back to conversion again. So getting them coming back, because typically, if we keep that audience coming back, or if we maintain that relationship with the audience, they’re likely going to need to make a purchase in that same category again, eventually.

Robbie 3:58
But when we are the ones that own that relationship, we can be top of mind when they do that. So if we’re the ones, adding value, giving them information they want in pair in line with the decision they want to make or in in line with the space they spend a lot of time and attention on, we’re going to be the ones that really own that opportunity. Because we’re going to be able to create a relationship that’s a lot more powerful than just I have the cheapest product at the cheapest price.

Robbie 4:26
And this is what kind of takes people from that commodity space to a value added product where you’re you’re not just buying the you’re not just buying the product, you’re buying the product from someone and that’s kind of a unique component.

Tim 4:41
So help me here like this is maybe going like a little tactical just to start with but I’ve been coming to this site, I’ve been reading their content, and I’m really enjoying it. Is it enough for to just have something at the very bottom on the footer that says sign up for email newsletter or.

Tim 5:00
How do you get them excited to actually become owned? Like, what is it? It’s like, that’s the first step like you want to have something there that’s going to make me be like, this is worth my time to sign up for this, this email. And it’s maybe not just because I’m going to get great content sent to me like, what, what do you find is kind of that formula. That’s, that’s good for for somebody who’s trying to figure out how to get around this.

Robbie 5:23
So offering some type of value and offering it based on like, what that person’s intent is going to be or what they’re going to need. So understanding what they’re going to need, who’s my core customer? What are they looking for? And how are they finding it? So basically, once they’re in our content, how do we capture that really, or, or start to build on top of that relationship where we’re asking for something, but we’re giving something first.

Robbie 5:47
So like, this is always kind of like that relationship of reciprocity where if we give something first we it’s okay to make an ask, were offering something or some incentive for the transfer of information. Like when you go to an e-commerce site, or a lot of other sites, they’re gonna make an offer there.

Robbie 6:04
And that offer is completely fine. But they know, hey, this is a transaction. I’ve got to live up to my expectations here. But I’m going to give you something valuable because you’re giving me something valuable in saying.

Tim 6:15
That makes sense that you want, like, beyond just let’s say, it’s a discount code. Like, that’s fine, that gets the email sign on. But the reality is, like, somebody can unsubscribe in a, in a heartbeat, they can be like, unsubscribe. So like, you got to make sure that what follows that then is relevant and good.

Tim 6:34
So that’s, I think that’s where like it, the formula comes together of like the difference between like, owning an audience and good email, versus, hey, we just gave somebody 10% off their first order, oh, they just churn, they unsubscribed immediately after they use the discount code got what they want.

Tim 6:51
And I think that’s where we’re, when we talk about building an audience, it’s not just that initial, sign up for an email and clicking a coupon it’s signing on, but now relationship starts building over time. And that’s, that’s what I love about the way you do this. Like, you have a very unique process of how you build that together for clients.

Robbie 7:12
Yeah, so basically taking them from okay, what else do they like? Yeah, they’re gonna get a code, they may get a code, they may offer some type of discount. And honestly, this is something where for that piece, testing it and experimenting, what’s gonna work, what’s not going to work. And there’s so many easy ways to test the through popovers through like, what’s the time horizon we have on a popover?

Robbie 7:32
You really gangster and have like, hey, what do we want on like a blog post page versus a collection page? There’s a lot of there’s a lot of different things you can do. But basically, once you once they’re on board, how do we give them valuable information or curate that experience as much as we possibly can? For them? So like, we have the content? And how do we add the context for them.

Robbie 7:53
So like making them talking to them, like their person and talking to him like, like, they’re going to find meaning, meaning and value in what we’re sharing. So if we can starting to understand who they are. So either asking the question, when you’re collecting that initial information, like, hey, what, what’s that high level of segmentation is going to help me understand, hey, what’s their problem? We’re going to solve for them? How are we going to do it?

Robbie 8:15
And like, understanding, hey, are they purchasing it for themselves or for somebody else, these are all the different ways we can understand, hey, this is how this person is trying to make this decision. This is what they’re purchasing. And this is how they’re making that decision, or like, what vertical they’re going to be in. And then we can start to serve them information that’s relevant for them.

Robbie 8:34
So if I know, we talked about like a clustering company, if I know what type of writer they are, it’s going to help me understand hey, this is what you need for dressage. This is what you need for if hunter jumper, this is what you need for those different categories.

Robbie 8:48
And I feel like I can speak speak to her horse girl lingo like you and believe now because I begin living the space and work with those clients. But you really understand, hey, what is that person going to need? And how do I talk to them? And how do I serve them relevant content.

Tim 9:01
So the cool thing about that is, is like, this isn’t something new necessarily that a business has to learn. Because if they’ve been doing the other thing, if they’ve been building their audience, they’ve been creating content and learning what their audience are looking for, who their audience is.

Tim 9:19
But this is in kind of taking that to the next level of like, well, now we have all of this. And we’re just going to tailor that experience. So they don’t see everything ungated they’re they’re now getting very specific articles, very specific products, very specific communications, the way you talk about a thing, you’re using the voice of that person, but it’s kind of piggybacking on some of the stuff that you’ve already learned. It’s like it’s not, it’s not a new thing.

Tim 9:47
You should have already been learning this as you create the content. That’s building that audience. And now you’re able to take all that hard work that you’ve built, and then plug it into what you’re doing which is a segmentation piece. He’s sort of like, well, now, now we deliver that. But we’re delivering the very specific articles to a very specific audience.

Tim 10:07
And they’re not seeing the thing that is not for dressage or for this, or, Hey, this is horse care, it applies to everybody. So like you have things that maybe apply to them all. And then some specific or do you ever cross lines like that?

Robbie 10:21
So so understanding, like, what’s going to work for those specific audiences is going to be like, that’s part of that work. But again, we’ve tested it, we already know that this works well, for this audiences, this may not work at all for this audience.

Robbie 10:33
So understanding hey, something’s going to be more broad, like, how do we how do we have a few broad level items, but also really highly contextual items. So recommending products or recommending things, and I’m sorry, I should have mentioned this, this is a lot of this work is typically done through automations, which, like an email automation is a great resource and tool because, hey, I didn’t really onboard my customer.

Robbie 10:55
And in so many ways, like I couldn’t take the content I’m already using, I get to play the hits. So I get to serve them up the content I want, at the right times for that person. But after that, like I get understanding, hey, let’s give them something more narrow.

Robbie 11:08
Let’s give them something more broad. And we can kind of play with that space and test it to understand definitively hey, this is working better than this. And this is what they need along each step of that journey.

Tim 11:18
So your automation is going beyond just like, hey, thanks for signing up for our new, you know, our email newsletter like that, that doesn’t count as an automation, like how far how far can you vacation, like, and it’s gonna be a really open question.

Robbie 11:32
So so so my mind was blown when I first started doing this, because I haven’t been in like the grand scale of things like haven’t spent that much time in this space, like, again, coming from social into e-commerce and then into spending a lot more time in email. Now, I’m just blown away.

Robbie 11:49
Because if you really get a play the hits, but you can really set up an automation to go for as long as you want. It could be it could be months, it could be years. But basically you’re wanting to understand what is the behavior? I want to drive through that? And how do I want to do that? So basically, if I want somebody to purchase the first time, how do I get them to purchase within a within a certain window of time based on what decision they’re making?

Robbie 12:14
Or if I want them to come back? How do I get them to come back? Or if I want them to feel like they’re a passionate advocate for the brand afterwards? How do I make sure that you have the best product experience possible once that product is or is on the way and then afterwards?

Robbie 12:29
So like some of these automations? Like, hey, 15 days with like, again, between seven and 10 emails in that 15 days? I know it sounds crazy, but like, when they’re really contextual. For one person,

Tim 12:41
I like hearing that because I hear some people where it’s like, we do an email once a month to our list. And it’s like, are you are you building a relationship? Like are your best friend, somebody that you talk to 12 times in a year? Or? Like, how often are you talking to the people that are nearest and dearest to you?

Tim 12:59
And I think that that’s with email, like if it’s done, right? That cadence and volume isn’t annoying. But if somebody just they’re hearing from a friend, they liked what they’re receiving, they’re going to engage with it, or hey, am I past this one, but the next one I’m going to engage with because it’s an article that just gets me excited.

Robbie 13:19
Yeah, so again, we get to play the hits. And again, we’re knowing we’re going to play something that’s gonna be super relevant for them, because hey, we’ve seen it perform well in past your work to possibly campaign. But then if it works, well there, let’s automate it and test it. So we can test and say, hey, this headline is working, this is not this is not working as well. So we get to be like, just we get to experiment with it.

Robbie 13:40
But also, we know that, hey, let’s vary that message a little bit. So we give like one is more buying decision based, one more product decision based, and then something that’s a little bit more warm fuzzy, like we give them a little bit of everything, so they’re not getting one version of us and then even the email formats, like probably going to send a plain text email or two from from a person at the business and that just completely changes the game for them because suddenly like hey, Michelle, from XYZ business is emailing me as opposed to XYZ business and that little bit of variation goes a long way and kind of starting to develop that relationship but when they get filled when people feel like they’re talked to by a person it goes a long way.

Tim 14:19
And that’s more personal and it’s more personal language to like you’re not just like for context here like if I get a an email from a Michelle at XYZ business, like it’s not just marketing copy that’s dropped in there like all of a sudden is taking on the voice and reading them it’s like a character in the story.

Tim 14:40
So somebody from the business and if we want if somebody called the business up, we want their conversation on the phone to sound the same way as the email so you know, you’re you’re using emojis you’re putting an “lol” in something or you know, adding a little bit of humaneness to, to that copy. It’s not a robot like even though it’s automated. It’s not robotic and how you’re talking? And that’s that’s part of the thing keeping that audience so it doesn’t feel like Michelle is a chatbot at a company.

Robbie 15:10
Yeah. So. So again, it is one of those things, it’s it. That’s a differentiator because Michelle, if they’ve know that person that feels like, hey, that’s Michelle, I’ve talked to Michelle, Michelle sends me emails when I go in the store. Hey, where’s Michelle? And we hear from clients all the time, do like, people email us back and say, “Oh, I love Lizzie, I’m so happy. She sent me that email, because I learned so much”. like, hey, Lizzie, like, they’ll respond to emails with saying like, “Hey Lizzie”, or “Hey Michelle”. And that’s where like, they can go one layer deeper.

Robbie 15:40
And like they have a relationship with a person, where if you went to a store, and like, I always think about this in terms of like, hey, if I were a retail business, or if I were a retail business, in a town where people consistently visited, everybody knows me, and everybody, I know them. And that relationship that I can build is so powerful. And that’s what keeps people coming back. And that’s what builds that level of trust over time.

Robbie 16:05
And if I can do that in a digital space, in an automated way, where it’s, I get to have my storefront open 24/7. And I get to take people and hold their hand, walk them through the buying process that would take anybody through, and I didn’t give them that personal touch that they wouldn’t get otherwise. That’s a differentiator.

Tim 16:22
This is like, it’s such a game changer. So I think of companies where, you know, I get emails like everybody from everywhere you shop, there’s any shot, but for some reason, H&M popped in mine, because I feel like I just unsubscribed from them recently. It is, it’s the least human experience. Like, here’s just some random smattering of products that I’m looking at.

Tim 16:43
And it’s like, I’m not a teenage boy, like, why are you sending, you know, this lineup, and then the next day, it’s just something totally different. And what you’re saying there, like, somebody responds back, and then like starting a conversation from an automation, like, that is so cool. It’s like I’ve never wrote back up and like, “Dear H&M, it’s so nice to hear from you again, can you help me with this”, like, it wouldn’t even cross your mind.

Tim 17:05
And I think that for e-commerce is that are smaller, and they don’t even have to have a physical presence. You know, companies that are just online only, there’s no reason that they can build personalities within the company that somebody that works there that, you know, knows the product is knowledgeable, they all of a sudden become like something within that email where people start to know them by name. It’s like, Oh, I love Lizzie’s last, you know, email, or I even got a text message from whatever way you set all that up.

Robbie 17:34
And so like SMS is in the same boat where you can own you can you can really own so much that relationship. But yeah, it is like it’s a differentiated, they can’t, you can’t compensate for and I always say like, again, as a business, you need to, you need to find a way to like, hey, once that person is coming to the door, once you want them to come back in the door, and owning that audience and building that relationship is really powerful.

Robbie 17:56
But as a business, like especially in the e-commerce space, you’ve basically got to have, you gotta help people make irrational decisions without purchase from Amazon for them. In some cases, for a lot of parts you probably sell, you could probably also purchase them on Amazon, you may even have a business that sells through Amazon, too.

Robbie 18:12
But understanding hey, Amazon is going to be at their door, like two to two days, they’re gonna be able to do it for likely, like the lowest price possible, they’re gonna have free shipping. And it’s also going to come in the Amazon package, they’re probably already getting to their house, within like a three day window.

Tim 18:28
Since you started talking like 30 seconds ago, they’re already on route to their houses.

Robbie 18:32
Yeah, so you really got to create an interrational reason. And like, while you may be able to, you probably will never be able to out scale Amazon, this is a place where you can out human them. And that human relationship is what is going to be that differentiator. Content, we see this every day, there’s more and more content every day.

Robbie 18:51
And when that content, like there’s a certain level of saturation that you can’t ingest any more, or you can’t find any more. But like, where you mix that content with the human aspect of it. Like that’s where the real magic happens, where people feel like there’s something beyond the transaction that they’re getting. And that’s where I’m just like, been blown away by the email space.

Robbie 19:10
Because like, you can build that and you’re not battling an algorithm the entire time you’re trying to build that you will maintain our audience consistently communicate with them, and you’re not fighting Facebook, or you’re not fighting Instagram for access to that audience. So you own it, as opposed to them owning it. Again, Google, again, may put you in may put you in the promotions tab or the newsletter tab. But again, if you do good work, you’re probably more than enough. Because if you engage with enough, you’re gonna move towards that direction.

Robbie 19:43
But it’s a it’s a process of understanding, hey, who’s my customer? How am I adding value? And then what do they need along that journey? And then lining up contextual content that’s going to give them that value. And by the time I’m ready to make an ask, they’re lined up and ready to go and Basically, I can leverage that audience in a lot of different ways too. But it’s something that is an asset to my business.

Robbie 20:06
And as you’re building your list, make sure you take that list that list, because that list is a business asset, you burn that list out, you might as well be throwing your frickin like, take your money, take your conference room table, take all the chairs around it, go outside and light it on fire, and see how everybody thinks about it. But like, that’s what you’re doing. Like, this is an asset for your business where you don’t always think about it in those terms.

Tim 20:32
When you’re talking about, I’m gonna jump back to like burning, burning through your list. I think that goes back to like that segmentation being so important, because if you’re just, you know, carpet bombing, like everybody on the list multiple times a week, same thing, no consideration for who they are, what the product is, you’re now like you said, you’re sitting in a conference room table on fire, and people in the business, the CEO is gonna come out and be like, What are you?

Tim 20:59
Why are you setting fire to the furniture? Well, we’re doing the same with our email list. It’s like, I think you’ve won them. And then taking that time and energy to be thoughtful, and the right segmentations automations. That’s where email can become very quickly, one of the most valuable assets that an online business can own.

Tim 21:21
And, you know, you just got to keep feeding, getting new people signing on. But if you have all of that built, right, then automation is that big thing. It’s, it’s ongoing, you go to bed at night, and it’s working.

Robbie 21:34
And, and so like, again, the automations those those drives the behaviors when they drive, so like understanding, Hey, what is their customer journey look like? What are the behaviors we will see along that journey? How do we want to make sure they’re purchasing? Again, if they haven’t purchased and a specific window? How do we know, hey, if they’re browsing for something, how do we follow up with them.

Robbie 21:53
And some of this is like, again, just understanding the customer what they need along those along the course of that journey. Like for those you can introduce as many automations as you want. And really, like make that, if you can curate that experience, like, that’s really powerful. And that’s valuable. And doing that in a consistent way is, is just like absolute gold, because that’s working to build a foundation for the for, basically, for revenue for your business.

Robbie 22:18
And that’s also kind of like investing, I always joke like, it’s not super sexy, you’re on the front end, it’s like investing in your 401K like it compounds over time, but you don’t see that in real time as much as you wish you could. So it’s not sexy, a lot of the ways that other channels are, so it doesn’t get the attention that they deserve. But it, it generates a lot of revenue.

Robbie 22:37
And if you can have like 10% of your revenue coming from those 15%, then 20%. Like that’s just a base that you can roll off of it makes everything else better, improves that conversion rate inside a user retention rate of the site. And just I can’t, that’s why I’ve been like completely blown away by this because I was like, like, I went into 2000, like the early 2018. I was like email, it’s a it’s a channel, it’s a cool channel, it’s it works.

Robbie 23:03
And then up-side like emails, like the sexiest like marketing channel I can think of because like, this is where you’re taking somebody from a one-time customer to a five-time customer and driving lifetime value through the roof. And it just offers lots of unique opportunities in e-commerce space. And also like B2B, this works where you can nurture this relationship through the process of basically doing what you’re selling,

Tim 23:09
It supplements their efforts, it’s like it’s not putting it all on Bill and the sales team to be making cold calls all day, it’s like, by the time Bill finally gets talking to them, they’ve they’ve been nurtured through a sequence of well thought out things that that specific persona or customer type is going to be looking for.

Robbie 23:50
And like, again, with that content, too, you get a line that content up that they may have never seen. And honestly, for some of those businesses, like in the b2b space, like there’s no, there’s no Netflix for plumbers, like there’s no, there’s none of that, where they suddenly say.

Tim 24:04
It would be so excited though, if it was.

Robbie 24:06
It would look like the bar for what looks like is so low. And when you speak to them and around a topic that they’re passionate about, and like or they’re an expert in, like an expert and help them through that problem. Like they could they’re going to be your biggest advocate or you’re going to be their hero because that’s a lot of tension. And, and fear may run that decision because a B2B decision, you don’t want to screw that up.

Robbie 24:31
But there’s so much value there. And then consistently maintaining that value over time as you’re releasing content. Like making that cadence consistent of offering value offering value offering value, your sale, you’re going to do things like you’re going to do things like promotions, but finding a way to build on top of the foundation you’ve already built through content and distributing content.

Robbie 24:55
And if you want to make a sale, this is more like understanding Hey, this is relationship building we’re doing so focusing on more relational relational communication as opposed to transactional communication. And when you find that right balance, it’s it’s startling for some people because they’re like, wait, I sent an email about, like, this is how to like, like, like, shave your horse on that this time of year in reichweite. This generated like, 1000s of dollars for us. And like, as like, yeah.

Robbie 25:25
Because people are ready to buy, we just have to maintain consistent, we just have to keep attention with them. Oh, it’s like, oh, yeah, this is super contextual, this time of the year. This is when people typically shave their horses down.

Tim 25:34
And once I’m all on there, I just realized I need a new pair of pants or a new jacket, or it’s getting cold outside, I need some winter boots.

Robbie 25:43
So so that’s where understanding, hey, even if you didn’t sell anything through your emails, just being there, and being present being top of mind, they’re going to need to make a purchase, you just need to not violate their relationship before they do so like not burning the not burning out your list and maintaining that list. Engagement is super important there.

Tim 26:01
So as you say, you talked about like leveraging, leveraging the content, like how much do you use the content over that that’s there? Like, are you just using the same content that lives in the site, or you creating some some things that are perhaps more email centric, and they still they still live on the site.

Tim 26:20
But it’s not done with that organic goal? It’s done with the goal of like, these are useful resources. But more so like, these are going to live in email flows is things like what is what is that balance of leveraging and building new content?

Robbie 26:33
So based on like, what level of foundation do they have? And typically like that, like organic contents a little bit more evergreen, and where it’s a little bit more high level, like making decision, possibly top of the funnel, this would be more bottom of the funnel like that engage stage where, hey, they’ve made a purchase, how do we get them to come back in or one of the other things are, things are exciting the lifestyle that they’re part of?

Robbie 26:57
Or what things are going to be the value of the product they’re using? So how do they use it in a different way? How do they use a complementary product? Or complementary items with that? And then what’s contextual for? Is there seasonality? Is there something like, Hey, during the course of the year, I need to know this when XYZ things if I’m cycling outside, I need to know XYZ?

Robbie 27:18
This is, these are the gloves I need in the winter. This is how to prepare for winter cycling like yeah, do I need to put Vaseline on my face, because it was gonna get chapped outside, do I need to have an extra pair of pants on? Maybe, but even just walking them through, how do I do that, that level of contextual information is really important. So building a base of like, almost a, not a year, a year of it, but a good amount of contextual items that you’re gonna be, you’re gonna be leveraging, like every every other week as a,

Tim 27:48
So you ca bake it in, like seasonality to that list. Product relation type content. So like you said, things that relate. So that way, you users in theory, you know, as fall comes around, they get this post, it’s you know, getting their horse, ready for shaving or colleague season or whatever it might be. It’s like you’ve, you’ve planned that ahead. And every year, that’s going to be the same thing.

Tim 28:15
But it has value because they’re starting to think about that, and you show up and they’re not necessarily going to think like, oh, man, they sent me this a year ago, because it’s a resources, they have to do the same process every year, we go through the same thing. And you’re just providing them a checklist or a guidance piece on like, here’s how to do this. Remember this? Do you have this equipment for it?

Tim 28:37
Yeah, that’s brilliant. I love that, that seasonal flow of like just thinking about all the all the things that somebody has to do, that are routine throughout the space of the year, and just meeting them at those because you’re just providing value. And it’s not necessarily like that sales push, but just by being there when they need to do this, or I think around like, you know, Fourth of July, like fireworks and spooking the horses or were like having something that goes out around that time. It’s like, hey, we’re thinking about you. We’re we own horses, too. We know the struggles that are real. We wish fireworks didn’t make any noise and people just that the thought of like looking at that way.

Tim 29:13
So you help them you do what they want to do better. And that’s where understanding what that it’s just comes back to that customer journey like what are they going through at different times? Again, how are they leveraging at different times, like, like during the year like you may not be riding your horse in the winter as much.

Tim 29:28
So how do you how do you like stay in shape for when you do start to ride your horse? Or how would What do you want to do with your horse in the winter when you can’t write it but like you still want to hang out with your horse because like You’re like for some like I swear like for some of these audiences like the horses are more there are they are movies they can watch with their horse.

Robbie 29:46
Like what movies kind of watch like horse movies, horse books, horses, like every really everything you can imagine like they really are in that lifestyle

Tim 29:55
And use you said one time to me and this this stuck with me but it’s like what Have the people thinking about when it’s not their nine to five? Like, what are those things that are going around? And obviously, in a B2B case, you’re thinking about, what are they thinking about during their nine to five, but sort of that bleeds outside of their nine to five of like, these are the things that still kind of spin around in your head like for, for e commerce.

Tim 30:17
That’s, that’s definitely like most of the time, like, purchases are probably something that they’re thinking about outside of their nine to five, whether that’s, I need a more comfortable mattress because I had a horrible night’s sleep, or this is my passion sport, where I’m a weekend athlete, and I want to up my game and have new product, new things, I need a new GPS for my bike, what’s the best kind of GPS for my bike, I’m going to start researching this and eventually find it.

Tim 30:41
But oh, I’ve stumbled upon these people that make awesome clothes, I probably could get a new kit as well. So you’re just you’re engaging this, they’re thinking about all those things that just fill their head on that workday, and you’re wanting to be there to talk to them?

Robbie 30:56
Yeah, you get them to be a better version of something they’re passionate about. How great is that? And like,

Tim 31:03
What’s the aspiration? How do we talk to them,

Robbie 31:07
It makes it really fun, because they get to have some fun doing it, because this is something that most businesses would already be doing. And if they’re seeing people that are to be doing this stuff, they’re already just taking what they’re doing in a physical space, into a digital space.

Robbie 31:21
And if they can do that, they get a really basically, at a level that they’ve never dreamt of. But fundamentally the same thing, they’re still just serving people where they need to be served. And then they’re taking it one step further. And they’re helping to be part of that person’s life, and are they like, they go from the person helping them at the store, to their training, buddy.

Robbie 31:43
And that’s a really big step that, I think is, in some ways undervalued, where they can understand, hey, I’m more than, I’m more than just the place they go to get something, I’m the resource that go to when they have a problem.

Tim 31:56
I’m just thinking of like, you know, a really obvious example of something this is like, if you’re a runner, and you go to a running store, and you’re shopping for for shoes, and you’re like, oh, I have really bad plantar fasciitis, or I have this issue, or I have that this staff is so knowledgeable.

Tim 32:13
And if you then have the ability to then start, you know, putting that type of stuff into email flows, and, and being able to put things around race calendars of when they’re happened and training plans and nutrition, and you’re just delivering all this value, whenever they need to buy a new pair of running shoes, who are they going to go to or they’re going to go to the person that over the space of the year has helped keep them from injuries help keep them fueled and hydrated, made sure that their shoes are, you know, being taken care of properly.

Tim 32:40
Don’t throw it into a tumble dryer and and destroy the thing, you know, anything that you can educate them on, you want to give them that human in person touch, but you’re doing that through email, but in consideration of all of the things that your customer is going to be thinking about or having to deal with over the space of six months, 12 months, whatever that calendar cycle might look like for your customer.

Robbie 33:02
And that’s where like they could go to Amazon, but they’re gonna come to you. And they could get it cheaper on Amazon, but they’re gonna come to you. And that’s where that real that real passion lies. And that’s where that becomes a differentiator.

Robbie 33:14
And you can use that in a way that’s, that’s, that’s not scalable for a lot of businesses. But if you can do that, it’s powerful. And that’s where like the smaller players, industries, industries have a distinctive, because they are the ones with those relationships built. And if they can leverage those, they’re going to be in a lot better place.

Robbie 33:35
And that’s again, owned audience we can go so much deeper and that we didn’t even talk about like subscriber hierarchy and like, like, we will fans or emails or whatever, but like we have a lot a lot deeper dive Tim. But I think we need to we need to give our a shout out to our presenting sponsor this week. And who is going to be?

Robbie 33:59
Gucci watches!

Tim 34:02
Maybe they’ll send us one.

Robbie 34:03
Yeah, it’s a band band. But again, Gucci always consistent always, always good. And they’re always good to see ya always always Gucci we’re always good. But, Tim we should probably cut it off there.

Tim 34:23
Yeah, I think we got a deep dive on like some of these things like they’re gonna be their their own their own episode. Like I said, there’s, there’s so much to hit on. And I even think back to like, the previous one, if you missed it diving into actually building that audience before you start building it.

Tim 34:38
There’s so much more that we can get into from the tactical side of like, well, how do you actually do that? It’s like, it’s great to hear it, but what do we what do we do? So let’s, let’s wrap it and yeah, our next one. We got more more good things planned.

Robbie 34:53
More good things going through. We’ll keep it at this point. You’re listening to this third one. You probably didn’t listen to number one, number two and number three, but like let us know what you want to hear and you want to understand who our audience is a little better. And if we can understand our audience, the better these are going to be for everyone and the more relevant these are going to be.

Tim 35:15
I feel I feel like I’m podcast is when somebody usually goes for like the shameless plug. It’s like if you love what you’re listening to be sure to give us some stars because sharing is caring and all those things. So I think we should ask the same if you have enjoyed it, go ahead. Give us a couple of stars or leave your feedback in there if you didn’t enjoy it, but either way, we want to hear from you. So reach out.

Robbie 35:35
Yes, yes, stars, star, stars, stars.


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